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Chain with load - Messages
#2 Posted: 10/16/2024 12:28:20 PM
Hi Valery. This file uses Lagrange multipliers method for minimizing.
CatenaryG.sm (45 KiB) downloaded 65 time(s).
CatenaryG.pdf (203 KiB) downloaded 71 time(s).
Best regards.
Alvaro.
CatenaryG.sm (45 KiB) downloaded 65 time(s).
CatenaryG.pdf (203 KiB) downloaded 71 time(s).
Best regards.
Alvaro.
2 users liked this post
#3 Posted: 10/16/2024 2:52:48 PM
This version uses maple for the symbolic evaluation of the integrals, reducing the calculation time a lot.
CatenaryG-maple.sm (46 KiB) downloaded 77 time(s).
CatenaryG-maple.pdf (205 KiB) downloaded 82 time(s).
Best regards.
Alvaro.
CatenaryG-maple.sm (46 KiB) downloaded 77 time(s).
CatenaryG-maple.pdf (205 KiB) downloaded 82 time(s).
Best regards.
Alvaro.
1 users liked this post
ioan92 10/16/2024 10:59:00 PM
#4 Posted: 10/18/2024 10:17:06 PM
Hi Valery, Hi Alvaro,
I find useful some additional comments on the subject targeted in yours interesting posts.
A. The catenary cable problem, you are dealing with, seems as being physically speaking this:
• A cable defined by its 2 endpoints (the 4 coordinates can be reduced to 2 information (H; V) if the origin point of the cable is taken in the origin of the axis system, and by the developed length L of the cable.
• A load (mass) is applied on the cable between its 2 ends.
Note: When the 3-input data of a cable (H; V; L) are given, its geometrical equation (the catenary) is completely determined by using 3 nonlinear equations. The nonlinear 3 equation system can be transformed in 3 independent equations, as it is shown here:
https://en.smath.com/forum/yaf_postst25405_Catenary-Cable-Analysis.aspx #14 Posted
B. If I’m not wrong, your objective is to find the new position of the cable (the cable being axially rigid) that assures the equilibrium.
Globally, this problem, IMHO, has 3 distinct technical instances:
i) The intermediary load is fixed on the cable length on a given distance over the developed cable. And your target is to find the final equilibrium position; that means 2 unknowns.
ii) This load can roll (slide) over the cable and you look for the position where the load finishes in equilibrium. This means 3 unknowns (the position of the rolling load on the cable length and the 2 coordinates of this point).
iii) This load can move only in one direction (vertical, for instance); the second DOF (horizontal, for instance) is blocked. That’s only 1 unknown - case technically pertinent also.
I find nice the graphical representation as the intersection of 2 distinct cables; the real solution also includes a third information - the position on the cable's length.
If I understood well your development, it seems that it’s belonging to the ii) case?
What do you think about some other solutions?
For instance, a method useful for a general case (more than a force between the cable’s ends) can be based on the concept of FEM (?).
Best regards,
Ioan
Do to others as you would like them to do to you!
Knowledge is of no value unless you put it into practice - Chekhov
2 users liked this post
#5 Posted: 10/19/2024 7:14:15 AM
Wrote... What do you think about some other solutions?
Hi. I think this may be the solution to the problem with a sliding mass.
CatenaryG-sliding mass-maple.sm (36 KiB) downloaded 74 time(s).
Best regards.
Alvaro
1 users liked this post
ioan92 10/19/2024 6:33:00 PM
#6 Posted: 10/19/2024 7:14:16 PM
Hi Alvaro,
Once again, thanks for this nice piece of high-flying mathematics, based on Lagrangian optimization, handled by Maple.
Unfortunately, I can’t run your application completely because I received this kind of message:"Lexemple est incorrect"
I’m not sure how to set the optimization option? All on “symbolic”?
If I may a suggestion, it’s to prepare a little bit in advance certain values, as for instance, the length o a cable segment can be obtained without integrating at each use.
I wish you a nice Week-End,
Ioan
Once again, thanks for this nice piece of high-flying mathematics, based on Lagrangian optimization, handled by Maple.
Unfortunately, I can’t run your application completely because I received this kind of message:"Lexemple est incorrect"
I’m not sure how to set the optimization option? All on “symbolic”?
If I may a suggestion, it’s to prepare a little bit in advance certain values, as for instance, the length o a cable segment can be obtained without integrating at each use.
I wish you a nice Week-End,
Ioan
Do to others as you would like them to do to you!
Knowledge is of no value unless you put it into practice - Chekhov
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