Hi,

Is it not possible to use the latest version of Maple engine or at least a newer one?
I see that currently version 6 of Maple (released in year 20000, so 24/25 years ago) is used:

I am wondering if is not possible to use a newer version of Maple engine in Smath?

Theoretically I think it is quite possible. But in this case, Maple must be installed in the system separately. The maple plugin must be updated to be able to work with new versions.

Wrote

Theoretically I think it is quite possible. But in this case, Maple must be installed in the system separately. The maple plugin must be updated to be able to work with new versions.

Do you know the reasons on which Maple plugin remained (and probably will remain so) at version 6 for Smath? Because of only this reason: the need to buy also the newer Maple license for newer versions of maple engine? Or?

There are several reasons. Firstly, this Maple plugin is made by only one person and he does not have enough time to do anything extra. Secondly, old versions of Maple could be divided into console and window parts. The console part can be placed entirely in the plugin, so the function is immediately available after its installation. Thirdly, the syntax and capabilities of the maple engine change and it takes a lot of time to debug the interaction of the two programs.

Yes, theoretically it is quite possible to do this, but from the practical side it is inconvenient. Maxima plugin went this way, and started with the maple version.

Now inside the Maple plugin there is a license file, so you can use it, but someday it will end. Due to licensing issues, there is no desire to make any improvements, it is better to spend time on free software.

Ok, I understand then the reasons on why its no any desire to make any improvements for update Maple version engine/plugin used so far by Smath Studio.

What are these free software on which are you referring?

So, I want to understand if its better to spend time with Smath Studio,to learn this math software better, as its free and seems powerful from what I see so far (and also its like as you made calculation with pan and paper, which I like). And this powerful engine calculation/capabilities seems to come from either maple or maxima plugin/engine (thas why I asked in the beginning about if its not possible to use a newer version of Maple engine (which is more capable than the current one (Maple 6)) inside Smath Studio).

My wondering then is when these maple/maxima plugin, engine will not be anymore possible to be used in Smath Studio further, then what will happen with Smath Studio from engine calculation/capabilities point of view? Will be Smath Studio still powerful in term of math calculation? Or I need to start again to learn other math software (like Mathcad, or other free math software (which I do not know yet the names of these available free math software capable enough) or worse paying a lot of money for a licensed math software program)?

All my plugins are free software that I spend some of my time on. There are quite a lot of them and many of them are very non-trivial in development.

SMath Studio has a sufficient set of functions for use without additional engines. Plugins expand the scope of possibilities. The program's users are mainly practicing engineers and they use it for auxiliary calculations and/or to design calculations in the form of an easy-to-read document..
You can find courses on the program on the Internet that will help you understand its capabilities.

But Smath Studio without additional engines like maple engine or maxima or any other powerful math engine...Smath seems to have only numeric capabilities (probably these numeric calculation capabilities strong enough up to a certain point, right?), and When it comes to symbolic calculation then Smath Studio stuck, is lost, without working together with these additional engines. That's I asked what will happen when will not be aymore possible to use maple/maxima engine in Smath studio. Also, with the passage of time without improvements even to these engine used by Smath (maple, maxima, or Smath studio own engine), Smath will become weak, when the need for computing power/calculation will increase.

I am using also Mathcad Prime, which is similar with Smath Studio, that's why I am thinking to approach also Smath studio, as I do not like to code when I am dealing with math stuff. Mathcad Prime you know has also problems with not being capable enough in terms of symbolics, but also fails in numeric calculation, but it seems that Smath studio is better in terms of engine capabilities (clearly in terms of symbolics, but I think also in terms of numerics).

If you often use symbolic calculations, it is currently better to use an engine suitable for this. SMath Studio was not originally developed for advanced symbolic calculations. Its difference is that it has an open interface for interaction with external programs, which is not the case with Mathcad Prime. If the ability to connect to Maxima and Maple disappears, then it is possible to find another symbolic engine and connect to it. As I wrote above, symbolic computations are not the main area of ​​use of the program.
Many calculations are now done using Python and they can also be connected and used, but then the "all in one" property of the document is lost.

Yes, every user wants something more, but this program came to a field where elephants are already trampling and it is not so easy to follow their path. There are places where elephants do not go, that's where we graze.

Wrote

All my plugins are free software that I spend some of my time on. There are quite a lot of them and many of them are very non-trivial in development.

SMath Studio has a sufficient set of functions for use without additional engines. Plugins expand the scope of possibilities. The program's users are mainly practicing engineers and they use it for auxiliary calculations and/or to design calculations in the form of an easy-to-read document..
You can find courses on the program on the Internet that will help you understand its capabilities.

I do not know how to say about the own engine of SMath Studio, if it is sufficient itself without additional engines or not:

When these additional engines will disapear or will be obsolete then I think will be painful for Smath...

I have my own development for this case, if necessary, I can connect my own port for symbolic engine based on Jasymca.

Oh, so we see that SMath own engine is very week...though the problems was pure numeric...

As for your example, you have to be honest. SMath Studio writes in the documentation what this function does. It is neither good nor bad. It does its job.

Hi Marius.

Mathcad never had its own symbolic engine. It always used pretty old versions of Maple or Mupad.

Matlab didn't have its own either, and the symbolic toolbox has to be purchased separately. Matlab used Maple, then Mupad, until it acquired it, but it still sells them separately.

And Octave, well Octave uses Sympy for its symbolic package, which is a python library.

So, I don't see the situation of SMath especially different from other well known comercial or free math suites.

Best regards.
Alvaro.

Razonar,

If Maxima engine has any bug present in its engine then SMath Studio it's stuck, nothing can be done to fix the bug. In the same way, if Maple 6 has any bug present at the level of this version, then again SMath Studio it's stuck, nothing can be done to fix the bug (possibly only if you switch to a newer version that has the bug fixed, but I understand that it's complicated to integrate a newer version of maple in SMath Studio, and anyway there will be most probable the problem of the maple license I think).


On the other hand, when there will be a need to make more complicated calculations and maxima and maple 6 engines will not be able to do the calculations then SMath Stufio will be stuck and the user will be blocked because he will not be able to go further due to the limitations of the non updates of engines used by SMath Studio, none of which can be improved from what I understand so that SMath studio to be still powerfull. tThose guys from Matlab or those from octave can work on the engine in order to perfect and improve it, remove bugs associated with the engine, and make more powerfull, even users need to buy their engine separately.

I understand that it's complicated for SMath to keep up or SMath to avoid these problems, although even to this level that SMath has reached is impressive.

But these are my concerns, with the problems stated above regarding the fact that any bugs presented in the maxima and maple 6 engines will not be fixed anymore, and when the need of more powerfull calculations will be needed and due to the fact that these engines used by SMath so far cannot pe updated and improuved then user will be stuck in going further along with SMath Studio.

Or at least I do not understand how these 2 problems SMath will be possible to overcome in future. If somebody has some explanations and soluționa to these 2 problems then I will be happy to hear what are they.

Well... Yes and no. While Maple has the license issue, both Maxima and the Maxima plugin are open source, so the problem is more if there are people able (skills and time) to maintain the plugin. Maxima has a larger userbase, so being able to fix bugs there is useful but not mandatory.

Dependence on a third-party engine that is not included in the program's computing environment violates the integrity of the computing document.
It is necessary to expand the capabilities so that users not only calculate something individually, but can exchange their results with each other.
In SMath Studio, there is an option to make requests for third-party programs so that you do not depend on only one calculation option. You can call any program and ask it to do something specifically for you. I showed how this can be done in the forum thread for the Maple Tools plugin. But these are special cases and for most users of the program this is not necessary.
The Script plugin can be improved and with its help you can calculate something faster. Such third-party interfaces impose additional requirements on the user. He must know Python, C#, Maple, and so on. If your calculations are so complex and the capabilities of SMath Studio are no longer enough, then use a tool that works better for your tasks.
SMath Studio's own language is too simple to include the features of the Maple language. Even for the current version, we use only a small part of the capabilities due to syntax limitations. For full integration, we need compatibility in language constructs, types, and so on. That's why I wrote earlier that this is a difficult task. Even Mathcad does not use the full power of the symbolic engine, because they do not need it. It is just an option for the buyer, a crutch that is given out for the leg. Yes, sometimes it is nice to calculate something symbolically, but all the main calculations are numerical. Engineers need a numerical crusher with flexible visualization capabilities.

Davide Carpi, I read right now on Maxima website:

"The Maxima branch of Macsyma was maintained by William Schelter from 1982 until he passed away in 2001. In 1998 he obtained permission to release the source code under the GNU General Public License (GPL). It was his efforts and skill which have made the survival of Maxima possible, and we are very grateful to him for volunteering his time and expert knowledge to keep the original DOE Macsyma code alive and well. Since his death, a group of users and developers has formed to bring Maxima to a wider audience.

Maxima is updated very frequently, to fix bugs and improve the code and the documentation. We welcome suggestions and contributions from the community of Maxima users. Most discussion is conducted on the Maxima mailing list.

Who is maintaining Maxima now?

Since William Schelter’s passing a group of users and developers has formed to keep Maxima under active development. There are currently 27 developers who can make changes to the source code. To get in touch with them, the preferred channel is the mailing list.

○ Is Maxima free?

Yes. Maxima is distributed under the GNU General Public License, with some export restrictions from the U. S. Department of Energy.
"

And I see that they are madke updates:
"Recent Releases

5.47.0: May 31, 2023

5.46.0: April 13, 2022

5.45.1: June 21, 2021

5.45.0: May 24, 2021

5.44.0: June 8, 2020
"

Then it's ok If Maxima is updated very frequently, to fix bugs and improve the code and the documentation, and it's maintain open source so SMath can use it.

Wrote

Dependence on a third-party engine that is not included in the program's computing environment violates the integrity of the computing document.

This is an important issue. It is partly addressed by the Maxima plugin providing automatic installation of the external software from the Maxima website.

Thus, if the installation isn't suppressed, documents with Maxima usage can be opened (currently limited to Windows OS but should be possible under Linux or even under Android).

The Maxima commands of any SMath document (or to be more precise: of any SMath driven Maxima session) can be exported as wxm file, which can be opened with wxMaxima, a popular GUI for Maxima. For details see https://opus4.kobv.de/opus4-fhbrb/files/2949/SMath_with_Maxima.pdf